9:37 AM me: You there?
| 13 minutes |
9:51 AM Rose: yes
me: Just rolling a big question through my head and I wanted to get your opinion.
Rose: sure
9:53 AM me: Is love a "need" or a "want?" In the sense of, do you think "needing" someone in your life suggests dependency (and perhaps a fear of loneliness) or does wanting suggest that the feelings are somewhat shallow?
9:54 AM Rose: i think that's a really good question, and one that people just assume they know the answer to
me: Mom once said you should want someone, not need them and I've never really settled my thoughts on it...
9:55 AM Rose: in my experience, its ideal if you know you can be happy alone before you commit to a relationship.
mom is not the most complex theologist
me: No, but she doesn't overthink things either.
Rose: people are not designed to be alone
we are designed to live in communities
small social groups
me: I agree with that.
Rose: its normal to want to share with a group.
in my case, i've always wanted a family
9:56 AM i'm happier now that i live in one
9:57 AM fear of loneliness isn't a bad thing
loneliness is a major cause of depression and despondency
it leads to all kinds of dimunations of quality of life
me: I feel like there is a modern expectation that people develop some sort of self-actualization before they are compatible for commitment.
So they need to strip themselves of "need" until they only want.
9:58 AM Rose: that is an impractical idea and a very modern notion, imo
i got a lot of weird looks from people when i lived in sf and told them i was engaged at 24
there is this sense that you can't commit to someone until you've gone through X amount of alone time
i think its bullshit
9:59 AM it isn't right for everyone and holding out and being on your own does not mean that, when you finally get married at 36, you've done the right thing
10:00 AM in my case, i don't think anyone is a perfect match for anyone else. i spent time away from Rob and decided I liked my life better with him in it.
there were things i liked better about being alone.
my house was much neater
for instance
me: nods
I think I'm very similar.
10:01 AM I like and value my privacy and independence, but as an exception rather than as a rule.
Rose: and those things don't need to be mutually exclusive!
10:02 AM we have a very reactionary attitude about relationships nowadays
its seems to be a reaction to 1950
there are lots of examples of great couples throughout history who keep their own rooms, have their own independent activities, etc.
10:03 AM me: The way I see it... our grandparents (speaking in the general sense) were stuck in a commitment without divorce, our parents had divorce and exercised it, so our generation is trying to find a way to avoid either of those options.
10:04 AM Rose: yes, everyone wants to be happy.
but the thing about successful relationships is that they're going to give and take, have highs and lows
10:05 AM but the people in them need to accept that, but be committed to the relationship beyond all that
i think when you get in trouble is when you start looking at your spouse/partner as the person depriving you of something
10:06 AM or, god forbid, if you have the idiocy of looking at them as someone who "should" be different
me: Indeed.
Rose: are we talking about what you wanted to talk about?
10:07 AM me: Pretty much.
Rose: its hard to talk about relationships theoretically
because you only have your own experience to go on
me: I guess its not exactly a "one or the other" scenario.
Rose: i think that is a healthier way of looking at partnership and independence.
they're a spectrum
10:08 AM not a choice
me: Want-Need spectrum?
Rose: that is also a spectrum
10:09 AM sometimes we need others and its ok
sometimes we need them because we're avoiding something
i think a key may be to look at the relationship from NOT your own standpoint
think about the other person. are you giving them the best parts of yourself in the relationship
10:10 AM me: Hm...
Rose: meaning fidelity to their growth and happiness, willingness to compromise, willingness to communicate even when its really hard to do so
10:11 AM me: nods
Rose: if you aren't giving them those things, then its not really a relationship, right?
then its wanting someone to make you happy
me: True.
10:12 AM Do you mind if I repost this on my blog? I find it interesting.
Rose: not at all
i like my soapbox
x)
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